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Closed 10 years ago.
So i'm here and i pretty much got a full chain of languages for prette much any purpose:
PHP
HTML
Javascript
Java
CSS
SQL
And now i'm questioning what i should do next as an alternative or addition.
I know there isn't a single best language but i hope i can at least get some expertise on what to expect from people using the languages.
My main focus is in web development so mainly there are some technologies that are growing big really fast lately:
node.js (yes basically javascript but i think theres a lot to learn for js to be used on the server side)
ruby
clojure
And there are some that have been around for quite some years now:
perl
python
But those are only the ones i've seen so far. What are your recommendations from these languages/technologies? Why? What are the benefits or have i missed the ultimate star among them all?
I was in a similar "what language next" connundrum and picked Ruby. I read tons of Ruby vs Python articles, and finally decided to go through a simple app in each. I used Ruby on Rails and Python's Django Framework. I really liked the Rails MVC pattern usage. It helps me stick to better writing practices.
Also, I found a good IDE to use (RubyMine), which when you're using a tool all day, I find it helpful when getting to know a new Framework.
There is no ultimate star each language has it's own pros and cons.
Most of the frameworks for the languages are almost the same and you can do pretty much all that you need with what you know. It all depends on your needs and current project.
I am a web developer that uses PHP and I still haven't had any problems except for maybe making a true Singleton like you can in Java for example (because of the lifespan of the script).
Python is cool I like it because it has many libraries and useful tools and the syntax is convenient.
I think that a good idea for you now would be to take on a MVC framework (Cohana, CodeIgniter, Yii etc...) and start using it and learn it because for more complex web applications experience with frameworks is good.
I think you should learn NoSql types of DB's and the design of NoSql Db's, as this is the way of the future for high traffic in depth web applications...
I would suggest doing some research in the design and implementation of:
Apache Hadoop
Cassandra
MongoDB
couchDB
BigTable
and perhaps even check out the wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NoSQL
This is the "cloud" tech utilized by Facebook, Twitter, Google, etc. And it is pretty impressive but requires quite a deviation of approach as opposed to traditional databases (RDBMS)...
This is what was the natural progression for me, when I was hired at my current job to take my dev "skills" to the cloud :) (btw if you are good at nosql implementations, and call it "cloud" solutions you can make a lot more money, its an emerging market for mainstream consumers)
Related
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Closed 10 years ago.
The requirement is to develop a HTML based facebook app. It would not be content based like a newspaper site,
but will mostly have user generated data which would be aggregated and presented from database + memcache.
The app would contain 4-5 pages at most, with different purposes.
We decided to write the app in Python instead of PHP , and tried to evaluate django.
However, we found django is not as flexible as how CodeIgniter in PHP is i.e. putting less restrictions and rules, and allowing you to do what you want to do.
PHP CodeIgnitor is minimalistic MVC framework, which we would have chosen if we were to develop in PHP.
Can you please suggest a flexible and minimalistic python based web framework? I have heard of pylons,cheeryPy,web.py , but I am completely unaware of their usage and structure.
Pyramid and Flask are both good options. Personally I think where pyramid shines is in it's flexibility in routing requests to view functions. You can do route based which is similar to how django does it though it's not full on regex matching and if you are willing to use resources/traversal you can do some really crazy things with access control lists.
You may not need that stuff and you are free to not use it. But it does scale up nicely to a super complex application. And it runs on python 3 where I don't think flask does yet, but it will eventually.
For my experience, I will recomend you Django:
Developed by a fast-moving online-news operation, Django was designed to handle two challenges: the intensive deadlines of a newsroom and the stringent requirements of the experienced Web developers who wrote it. It lets you build high-performing, elegant Web applications quickly.
It is really easy to learn and you will be able to develop those features after going through the official walkthrough
Check (Flask) It's a very clever micro-framework with a quiet active community.
You will not regret it ;)
For the fastest development you may dive into Django. But Django is probably not the fastest solution. Flask is lighter. Also you can try Pyramid.
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Closed 10 years ago.
I am extremely comfortable with Python. I'm "ok" with Java with good experience in Android(But we all know that most of the stuff in Android is so well covered in many blogs that the learning curve is not really that steep.) Thus, coming back to the web-app. This is what I'm expecting:-
A lot of requests. (Scalability.)
Concurrency.
Responsive.
Good error reporting.
Less steeper learning curve.
Stacks well with PostgresDb and Redis.
Provides some way to build cleaner apis(Something django-piston.)
Last but not the least, I've a time period of 2 months to finish it.(Not the proto-type but the final version.)
Edit:
Node.js seems exceptionally good to build a fast prototype but it is too buggy to scale up.
PHP is a language that I never found myself comfortable to code in. Neither was I comfortable in JAVA till I picked up Android coding. Thus, a preference to Scala. Also, I learned that fb chat was built on Erlang. And I believe that of many things wrong in fb, one of the few things that is right is their stack and preferences of particular languages/frameworks to get done with their features.
I'm a noob in Scala but I don't find the programming language that difficult. I have gone through quite a few blog posts on Play vs Lift, Web dev in Scala, advantages and disadvantages of Scala and many such things. The only reasoning I am shifting to Scala is I am terribly pissed with the concurrency of Python and how non-scalable it is.(I am a huge fan of twisted and use it for a zillion other things but I just don't think Django/Rails are cut out to deal with concurrent, stable, responsive web app.)
My question here is, am I wrong? Is it worth it to jump to Scala, taking everything into consideration? I really hope to get some good answers because I don't want to spend long frustrating hours getting a skeletal version of my web-app done and then realize that it is not scalable. Also, what would be a preferred stack? What does the industry use? (I know a lot of questions but it is a scary thing to jump from Django/Rails to anything else.)
Any help would be appreciated.
I only started learning play in the last few days and I love it. Has all the benefits of Java (For me this is machine learning related) with all the loveliness of a simple to use MVC framework.
Play has great support for web sockets and has a lovely sample chat application that you can play around with to see if it fits your bill.
https://github.com/playframework/Play20/tree/master/samples/scala/websocket-chat
Picking up the previously mentioned gevent approach from sweemeng: Go for it. It even comes with possible Django integration using gunicorn. Here are some articles to help you get started & get the idea:
Good introductions:
Gevent, Long-Polling & You
Going Green
Example code:
Simpler long polling with Django and Gevent
Webchat Demo (maybe exaclty what you are looking for)
Deployment and libraries:
run web app with gevent
Projects Using Gevent
Not sure about django integration, but gevent is able to use websocket, and long polling is a well known pattern on gevent. You can use that as a start for developing such app.
You can use tornado too, but i am not familiar with that.
on top of that, this is a project from a friend of mine, that integrate django with tornado and their socket.io plugin
https://github.com/felixleong/tornadio-with-django
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Closed 10 years ago.
I am a newb coder in a startup and I am implementing search of documents in a directory in a web host.
I am comparing Lucene/Solr, Whoosh, Sphinx and Xapian. Whoosh is natively python. But I want your opinions on it too. Which of these have
mature and easy to use and install interfaces with python? (Whoosh is a no-brainer)
no chance for crashes, bottlenecks and other failures
best documented interface (Im not reading PHP docs because python docs were sparse)
easiest to get up and running (only one has a quick-start tutorial)
Speaking for Apache Solr, Python has several Solr clients, which I've collected based on feedback from our customers at Websolr:
Haystack is very popular, and designed for seamless integration within Django apps. If you're developing a Django app, Haystack is for you.
Sunburnt looks to be more generic than Haystack, and is also very well documented. If you're doing plain ol' Python, Sunburnt is worth a look.
Other Python Solr clients that I've found, which seem a bit lower level...
solrpy
pysolr (I know, right?)
Insol
Some more details about how your app is built (in particular, is it a Django app?) would help narrow things down from here. Good luck finding the best fit for your app!
Use Whoosh if you don't need the speed, extra features of the alternatives. It's great, has a nice API, good documentation. My second choice would probably be Xapian, which is fast and has a fairly decent API. They are all fairly mature products. If you don't know what you really need, I'd just go with Whoosh for now.
If you want quick python integration, try indextank. You can be up and running in 2 minutes, and it's free.
For the other alternatives, I'd go with Solr (provided you want to host the search servers yourself, or signup for websolr )
Disclaimer: I work at indextank.
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Closed 10 years ago.
I have been working with Ruby on Rails for over a year now and have been offered some development work with Python. I would like know if development with Python is as enjoyable as Ruby in terms of the clarity and ease of use. And how well is Python suited for Web development. I've heard of Pylons being a direct port of the Rails framework but does it provide the same level of comfort and features. Are there any popular websites built using Python and a framework that offers the same level of flexibilty as Rails.
Because Rails doesn't seem like work.
Django is one of the most famous. It follows a different approach to web devlopment then ruby does, but it is just as powerful and feature rich. An example website running Django is lawrence.com
Pylons is another popular one, I don't know why you heard it was a Rails clone, because it is not. It is a lightweight framework that leverages the power of other open-source projects to give you flexibility in implementation. For example, you can choose to use SQLAlchemy, SQLObject or CouchDB for managing your database. Or you can choose between Mako, Genshi, Jinja2, or whatever you like for your templates. I think you get the picture. Some example website running of pylons are: freebase and Charlie Rose
There exist other web framework as well, but they are less popular.
Notably, TurboGears, which is now built upon Pylons. I would say it tries to pack more juice then pylons does, but it also constrain you more as it assumes more decisions for you. Still, you can stay away from them and do as you please, but it starts with a more constrained framework.
The last one I will mention is Zope, which is the big commercially backed one, that has been there for a while now, but I don't have much experience with it. I do believe it is the less "fun" to work with, but that's just my feeling, you can check it out yourself.
All in all, it comes down to your workflow, I personally, do not enjoy Ruby as a language as much as I do Python and it is natural that I thus like to work with python for web development then Ruby. You really need to try them out yourself, at least the first two I mentioned, try to build a small website, just to get a feel for it. All I can say is from my experience, people either like Rails or Python, not both...
Good Luck!
One very good web development framework is Django
The main two frameworks in Python are Pylons (with the coaligned Turbogears framework) and the more popular Django. Django stomps everything for doing content-based sites (CMS etc) because the admin is excellent.
However, your question makes you sound very much enthused with Ruby and I doubt you'll find anything you like as much. It goes both ways: I'm pretty meh on Rails but really like Python and node.js.
I have done a lot of work with Python in the past year, mostly using Django. I enjoy it, and agree with others that it's great for content-heavy sites. Python and all of its frameworks very much follow the mantra of there being one correct way of doing things. I have learned that most of my pain extending Django lies in me approaching a problem wrongly and need to refactor the code. If you are a precise, logically-driven thinker, you'll enjoy Python a lot.
As far as websites that use Python for a code base, the biggest may be reddit and its family of sites. Django's website also lists sites that use it. I haven't had the privilege of using Pylons, but I also hear good things about it.
Clarity and ease of use are some of Pythons biggest selling points. In saying that, the different Python web frameworks cover almost the entire spectrum from small and simple all the way up to large and complex with everything in between.
You should find that most Python web frameworks have less 'magic' than Rails - ie they are a bit more explicit which is arguably better from the clarity point of view.
In my opinion, even if you enjoy Rails and don't ever plan on leaving, you should still try out other languages and frameworks occasionally to give you a broader perspective.
Personally I like Turbogears2, but I think Django would make a good starting point for a Rails developer that wanted to try out something else.
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Closed 11 years ago.
web2py to is a Python framework but shares the "convention over configuration" design that Ruby on Rails has. On the plus side it packages a lot more functionality with its s standard distribution and we claim it is faster and easier to use.
Has any Rails user tried it? What is your impression?
No rants please. Just technical comments.
c'mon guys... your only argument is "Technical differences are rather irrelevant." and "it don't matter what web framework you use"? I disagree. The size of the users base has more to do with marketing and how long a framework has been around. By that argument ASP and PHP are better than Rails.
Has anybody here used both Rails and web2py?
web2py runs on webfaction and any hosting provider that supports mod_proxy or mod_wsgi or mod_fcgi, and runs on Google App Engine (rails does not). There is also a dedicated web2py hosting provider (star-nix.com).
I found web2py much easier to learn... there are fewer scripts to run and abstractions. On the other hand, web2py's database layer isn't a real ORM... it's almost like writing raw SQL. Simple things end up taking many lines of code, just like SQL.
I would say the biggest "con" of using webpy over Rails is that there are not a lot of Rails-specific hosting services around, and the huge community based around it (there are Rails plugins and tools for.. everything). The same cannot be said for web2py.
It depends what you want to do with it - if it's something to write your personal site with, and you already have a server to host it on, use whatever you prefer. If it's something to distribute for others to run, Rails has more options for hosting, and a bigger community, so it may be a better choice.
Technical differences are rather irrelevant. Every framework can basically do the same (generate web-pages). What is important is community, ease of use, useful feature-sets, ability to host it and so on - and those are all really subjective.
I still use PHP quite often, not because "it's better", but because I can host it on a huge majority of web-hosts. I also use Rails because as it has a good, and very active community. The actually technicalities of the framework wasn't ever a consideration, really..
I could probably put together a list of why web2py is "better"/"worse" than Rails - Rails may be 0.04sec/request slower at generating templates containing loops, or web2py may have a good DB model generator, or some other technical reason - but those may not be relevant to you at all