There are many questions related to Stackless Python. But none answering this my question, I think (correct me if wrong - please!). There's some buzz about it all the time so I curious to know. What would I use Stackless for? How is it better than CPython?
Yes it has green threads (stackless) that allow quickly create many lightweight threads as long as no operations are blocking (something like Ruby's threads?). What is this great for? What other features it has I want to use over CPython?
It allows you to work with massive amounts of concurrency. Nobody sane would create one hundred thousand system threads, but you can do this using stackless.
This article tests doing just that, creating one hundred thousand tasklets in both Python and Google Go (a new programming language): http://dalkescientific.com/writings/diary/archive/2009/11/15/100000_tasklets.html
Surprisingly, even if Google Go is compiled to native code, and they tout their co-routines implementation, Python still wins.
Stackless would be good for implementing a map/reduce algorithm, where you can have a very large number of reducers depending on your input data.
Stackless Python's main benefit is the support for very lightweight coroutines. CPython doesn't support coroutines natively (although I expect someone to post a generator-based hack in the comments) so Stackless is a clear improvement on CPython when you have a problem that benefits from coroutines.
I think the main area where they excel are when you have many concurrent tasks running within your program. Examples might be game entities that run a looping script for their AI, or a web server that is servicing many clients with pages that are slow to create.
You still have many of the typical problems with concurrency correctness however regarding shared data, but the deterministic task switching makes it easier to write safe code since you know exactly where control will be transferred and therefore know the exact points at which the shared state must be up to date.
Thirler already mentioned that stackless was used in Eve Online. Keep in mind, that:
(..) stackless adds a further twist to this by allowing tasks to be separated into smaller tasks, Tasklets, which can then be split off the main program to execute on their own. This can be used for fire-and-forget tasks, like sending off an email, or dispatching an event, or for IO operations, e.g. sending and receiving network packets. One tasklet waits for a packet from the network while others continue running the game loop.
It is in some ways like threads, but is non-preemptive and explicitly scheduled, so there are fewer issues with synchronization. Also, switching between tasklets is much faster than thread switching, and you can have a huge number of active tasklets whereas the number of threads is severely limited by the computer hardware.
(got this citation from here)
At PyCon 2009 there was given a very interesting talk, describing why and how Stackless is used at CCP Games.
Also, there is a very good introductory material, which describes why stackless is a good solution for Your applications. (it may be somewhat old, but I think that it is worth reading).
EVEOnline is largely programmed in Stackless Python. They have several dev blogs on the use of it. It seems it is very useful for high performance computing.
While I've not used Stackless itself, I have used Greenlet for implementing highly-concurrent network applications. Some of the use cases Linden Lab has put it towards are: high-performance smart proxies, a fast system for distributing commands over huge numbers of machines, and an application that does a ton of database writes and reads (at a ratio of about 1:2, which is very write-heavy, so it's spending most of its time waiting for the database to return), and a web-crawler-type-thing for internal web data. Basically any app that's expecting to have to do a lot of network I/O will benefit from being able to create a bajillion lightweight threads. 10,000 connected clients doesn't seem like a huge deal to me.
Stackless or Greenlet aren't really a complete solution, though. They are very low-level and you're going to have to do a lot of monkeywork to build an application with them that uses them to their fullest. I know this because I maintain a library that provides a networking and scheduling layer on top of Greenlet, specifically because writing apps is so much easier with it. There are a bunch of these now; I maintain Eventlet, but also there is Concurrence, Chiral, and probably a few more that I don't know about.
If the sort of app you want to write sounds like what I wrote about, consider one of these libraries. The choice of Stackless vs Greenlet is somewhat less important than deciding what library best suits the needs of what you want to do.
The basic usefulness for green threads, the way I see it, is to implement a system in which you have a large amount of objects that do high latency operations. A concrete example would be communicating with other machines:
def Run():
# Do stuff
request_information() # This call might block
# Proceed doing more stuff
Threads let you write the above code naturally, but if the number of objects is large enough, threads just cannot perform adequately. But you can use green threads even for in really large amounts. The request_information() above could switch out to some scheduler where other work is waiting and return later. You get all the benefits of being able to call "blocking" functions as if they return immediately without using threads.
This is obviously very useful for any kind of distributed computing if you want to write code in a straightforward way.
It is also interesting for multiple cores to mitigate waiting for locks:
def Run():
# Do some calculations
green_lock(the_foo)
# Do some more calculations
The green_lock function would basically attempt to acquire the lock and just switch out to a main scheduler if it fails due to other cores using the object.
Again, green threads are being used to mitigate blocking, allowing code to be written naturally and still perform well.
Related
Learning Python and trying to do something ambitious (perhaps too much).
The application (console, that runs silently like a server), needs to talk to 2 serial ports, needs to deal with timers, needs to push information on Redis KV-store, write logs, and interact with bunch of other similar applications using unix IPC (or socket comm.)
The easier way (to my mind) to think of such an application is to work with threads and event queues. However due to what I understand as GIL enforced limitation with threading, it is not quite an option with Python (unless, I misunderstood things). The alternative way, what I understood - is to work with asynchronous I/O framework, green-threads, coroutines etc.
Are twisted, gevent and asyncoro really alternatives in Python for asynchronous event-driven programming that I intend to write ?
Since learning twisted seems to be such a big investment (in terms of time/effort), I was wondering if gevent and asyncoro could be easier and better alternative ? From the bit of superficial document reading done so far, asyncoro seems to be simplest, with very limited amount of new learning, and Twisted is other extreme, with gevent being somewhere in the middle -- but then I am not sure, if they are really comparable.
Here's an example of what the application would do if were multi-threaded:
Thread:1 - Monitor health of serial port, periodically i.e. with a timer. Say check every 2 minutes if last state was healthy. If last state was unhealthy then check every 30 seconds for first 5 mins, then every minute for next 10 mins... like in exponential backoff. Note that there are multiple such serial ports.
Thread:2 - Monitor state of application-level sessions that come-and-go from time to time, over the serial ports, and the communication that happens over it. Redis is (planned) to be used to write to distributed KV-store s.t. other instances of application (running on same or other servers), can coordinate certain other actions.
Thread:3 - Performs some other housekeeping tasks.
All of the threads need to do logging, all the threads use timers (& other events) to do certain things. Timers are used for periodic execution of some logic and as timeouts to guard certain actions (blocking or non-blocking).
My experience with Python is extremely limited, but I have experience writing similar programs in C/C++ and Java. Using Python for this, to learn.
You can use any of the libraries you've mentioned here to implement the application you've described. You can also use traditional threads. The GIL prevents you from achieving hardware-level parallelism in the execution of Python byte code operations (as distinct from, say, native code being invoked from your Python program). It does not prevent you from performing parallel I/O operations - which is what it sounds like your application is primarily concerned with.
There isn't enough detail in your question to provide a recommendation of one of these tools over another (and if there were enough detail, the question would probably be enormous and the effort to answer it correctly would probably discourage anyone on SO from doing so). It's typically safe to say that the threading approach is probably the worst, though (for a variety of reasons I won't even attempt to expain here; they're documented well enough on the internet at large).
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I am writing a simple daemon to receive data from N many mobile devices. The device will poll the server and send the data it needs as simple JSON. In generic terms the server will receive the data and then "do stuff" with it.
I know this topic has been beaten a bunch of times but I am having a hard time understanding the pros and cons.
Would threads or events (think Twisted in Python) work better for this situation as far as concurrency and scalability is concerned? The event model seems to make more sense but I wanted to poll you guys. Data comes in -> Process data -> wait for more data. What if the "do stuff" was something very computationally intensive? What if the "do stuff" was very IO intensive (such as inserting into a database). Would this block the event loop? What are the pros and drawbacks of each approach?
I can only answer in the context of Python, since that's where most of my experience is. The answer is actually probably a little different depending on the language you choose. Python, for example, is a lot better at parallelizing I/O intensive operations than CPU intensive operations.
Asynchronous programming libraries like twisted, tornado, gevent, etc. are really good at handling lots of I/O in parallel. If your workload involves many clients connecting, doing light CPU operations and/or lots of I/O operations (like db reads/writes), or if your clients are making long-lasting connections primarily used for I/O (think WebSockets), then an asynchronous library will work really well for you. Most of the asynchronous libraries for Python have asynchronous drivers for popular DBs, so you'll be able to interact with them without blocking your event loop.
If your server is going to be doing lots of CPU intensive work, you can still use asynchronous libraries, but have to understand that every time you're doing CPU work, the event loop will be blocked. No other clients are going to be able to anything at all. However, there are ways around this. You can use thread/process pools to farm the CPU work out, and just wait on the response asynchronously. But obviously that complicates your implementation a little bit.
With Python, using threads instead actually doesn't buy you all that much with CPU operations, because in most cases only one thread can run a time, so you're not really reaping the benefits of having a multi-core CPU (google "Python GIL" to learn more about this). Ignoring Python-specific issues with threads, threads will let you avoid the "blocked event loop" problem completely, and threaded code is usually easier to understand than asynchronous code, especially if you're not familiar with how asynchronous programming works already. But you also have to deal with the usual thread headaches (synchronizing shared state, etc.), and they don't scale as well as asynchronous I/O does with lots of clients (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C10k_problem)
Both approaches are used very successfully in production, so its really up to you to decide what fits your needs/preferences better.
I think your question is in the 'it depends' category.
Different languages have different strengths and weaknesses when it comes to threading/process/events (python having some special weaknesses in threading tied to the global interpreter lock)
Beyond that, operating systems ALSO have different strengths and weaknesses when you look at processes vs threads vs events. What is right on unix isn't going to be the same as windows.
With that said, the way that I sort out multifaceted IO projects is:
These projects are complex, no tool with simply make the complexity go away, therefor you have two choices on how you can deal:
Have the OS deal with as much complexity as possible, making life easier for the programers, but at the cost of machine efficiency
Have the programer take on as much complexity as is practical so that they can optimize the design and squeeze as much performance out machine as possible, at the cost of more complex code that requires significantly higher-end programers.
Option 1 is normally best accomplished by breaking apart the task into threads or processes with one blocking state-machine per thread/process
Option 2 is normally best accomplished by multiplexing all the tasks into one process and using the OS hook for an event system. (select/poll/epoll/kqueue/WaitForMultipleObjects/CoreFoundation/ libevent etc..)
In my experience project framework/internal-arch often come down to the skills of the programers at hand (and the budget the project has for hardware).
If you have programmers with a background in OS internals: Twisted will work great for python, Node.js will work great for Javascript, libevent/libev will work great for C or C++. You'll also end up with super efficient code that can scale easily, though you'll have a nightmare trying to hire more programmers
If you have newbie programers and you can dump money into lots of cloud services then breaking the project into many threads or processes will give you the best chance of getting something working, though scaling will eventually become a problem.
All-in-all I would say the sanest pattern for a project with multiple iterations is to prototype in simple blocking tools (flask) and then re-write into something harder/more-scalable (twisted), otherwise your falling in the classic Premature optimization is the root of all evil trap
The connection scheme is also important in the choice. How many concurrent connections do you expect ? How long will a client stay connected ?
If each connection is tied to a thread, many concurrent connections or very long lasting connections ( as with websockets ) will choke the system. For these scenarios an event loop based solution will be better.
When the connections are short and the heavy treatment comes in after the disconnection, both models weigh each other.
I'm working on simulating a mesh network with a large number of nodes. The nodes pass data between different master nodes throughout the network.
Each master comes live once a second to receive the information, but the slave nodes don't know when the master is up or not, so when they have information to send, they try and do so every 5 ms for 1 second to make sure they can find the master.
Running this on a regular computer with 1600 nodes results in 1600 threads and the performance is extremely bad.
What is a good approach to handling the threading so each node acts as if it is running on its own thread?
In case it matters, I'm building the simulation in python 2.7, but I'm open to changing to something else if that makes sense.
For one, are you really using regular, default Python threads available in the default Python 2.7 interpreter (CPython), and is all of your code in Python? If so, you are probably not actually using multiple CPU cores because of the global interpreter lock CPython has (see https://wiki.python.org/moin/GlobalInterpreterLock). You could maybe try running your code under Jython, just to check if performance will be better.
You should probably rethink your application architecture and switch to manually scheduling events instead of using threads, or maybe try using something like greenlets (https://stackoverflow.com/a/15596277/1488821), but that would probably mean less precise timings because of lack of parallelism.
To me, 1600 threads sounds like a lot but not excessive given that it's a simulation. If this were a production application it would probably not be production-worthy.
A standard machine should have no trouble handling 1600 threads. As to the OS this article could provide you with some insights.
When it comes to your code a Python script is not a native application but an interpreted script and as such will require more CPU resources to execute.
I suggest you try implementing the simulation in C or C++ instead which will produce a native application which should execute more efficiently.
Do not use threading for that. If sticking to Python, let the nodes perform their actions one by one. If the performance you get doing so is OK, you will not have to use C/C++. If the actions each node perform are simple, that may work. Anyway, there is no reason to use threads in Python at all. Python threads are usable mostly for making blocking I/O not to block your program, not for multiple CPU kernels utilization.
If you want to really use parallel processing and to write your nodes as if they were really separated and exchanging only using messages, you may use Erlang (http://www.erlang.org/). It is a functional language very well suited for executing parallel processes and making them exchange messages. Erlang processes do not map to OS threads, and you may create thousands of them. However, Erlang is a purely functional language and may seem extremely strange if you have never used such languages. And it also is not very fast, so, like Python, it is unlikely to handle 1600 actions every 5ms unless the actions are rather simple.
Finally, if you do not get desired performance using Python or Erlang, you may move to C or C++. However, still do not use 1600 threads. In fact, using threads to gain performance is reasonable only if the number of threads does not dramatically exceed number of CPU kernels. A reactor pattern (with several reactor threads) is what you may need in that case (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactor_pattern). There is an excellent implementation of the reactor pattern in boost.asio library. It is explained here: http://www.gamedev.net/blog/950/entry-2249317-a-guide-to-getting-started-with-boostasio/
Some random thoughts here:
I did rather well with several hundred threads working like this in Java; it can be done with the right language. (But I haven't tried this in Python.)
In any language, you could run the master node code in one thread; just have it loop continuously, running the code for each master in each cycle. You'll lose the benefits of multiple cores that way, though. On the other hand, you'll lose the problems of multithreading, too. (You could have, say, 4 such threads, utilizing the cores but getting the multithreading headaches back. It'll keep the thread-overhead down, too, but then there's blocking...)
One big problem I had was threads blocking each other. Enabling 100 threads to call the same method on the same object at the same time without waiting for each other requires a bit of thought and even research. I found my multithreading program at first often used only 25% of a 4-core CPU even when running flat out. This might be one reason you're running slow.
Don't have your slave nodes repeat sending data. The master nodes should come alive in response to data coming in, or have some way of storing it until they do come alive, or some combination.
It does pay to have more threads than cores. Once you have two threads, they can block each other (and will if they share any data). If you have code to run that won't block, you want to run it in its own thread so it won't be waiting for code that does block to unblock and finish. I found once I had a few threads, they started to multiply like crazy--hence my hundreds-of-threads program. Even when 100 threads block at one spot despite all my brilliance, there's plenty of other threads to keep the cores busy!
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What are the modules used to write multi-threaded applications in Python? I'm aware of the basic concurrency mechanisms provided by the language and also of Stackless Python, but what are their respective strengths and weaknesses?
In order of increasing complexity:
Use the threading module
Pros:
It's really easy to run any function (any callable in fact) in its
own thread.
Sharing data is if not easy (locks are never easy :), at
least simple.
Cons:
As mentioned by Juergen Python threads cannot actually concurrently access state in the interpreter (there's one big lock, the infamous Global Interpreter Lock.) What that means in practice is that threads are useful for I/O bound tasks (networking, writing to disk, and so on), but not at all useful for doing concurrent computation.
Use the multiprocessing module
In the simple use case this looks exactly like using threading except each task is run in its own process not its own thread. (Almost literally: If you take Eli's example, and replace threading with multiprocessing, Thread, with Process, and Queue (the module) with multiprocessing.Queue, it should run just fine.)
Pros:
Actual concurrency for all tasks (no Global Interpreter Lock).
Scales to multiple processors, can even scale to multiple machines.
Cons:
Processes are slower than threads.
Data sharing between processes is trickier than with threads.
Memory is not implicitly shared. You either have to explicitly share it or you have to pickle variables and send them back and forth. This is safer, but harder. (If it matters increasingly the Python developers seem to be pushing people in this direction.)
Use an event model, such as Twisted
Pros:
You get extremely fine control over priority, over what executes when.
Cons:
Even with a good library, asynchronous programming is usually harder than threaded programming, hard both in terms of understanding what's supposed to happen and in terms of debugging what actually is happening.
In all cases I'm assuming you already understand many of the issues involved with multitasking, specifically the tricky issue of how to share data between tasks. If for some reason you don't know when and how to use locks and conditions you have to start with those. Multitasking code is full of subtleties and gotchas, and it's really best to have a good understanding of concepts before you start.
You've already gotten a fair variety of answers, from "fake threads" all the way to external frameworks, but I've seen nobody mention Queue.Queue -- the "secret sauce" of CPython threading.
To expand: as long as you don't need to overlap pure-Python CPU-heavy processing (in which case you need multiprocessing -- but it comes with its own Queue implementation, too, so you can with some needed cautions apply the general advice I'm giving;-), Python's built-in threading will do... but it will do it much better if you use it advisedly, e.g., as follows.
"Forget" shared memory, supposedly the main plus of threading vs multiprocessing -- it doesn't work well, it doesn't scale well, never has, never will. Use shared memory only for data structures that are set up once before you spawn sub-threads and never changed afterwards -- for everything else, make a single thread responsible for that resource, and communicate with that thread via Queue.
Devote a specialized thread to every resource you'd normally think to protect by locks: a mutable data structure or cohesive group thereof, a connection to an external process (a DB, an XMLRPC server, etc), an external file, etc, etc. Get a small thread pool going for general purpose tasks that don't have or need a dedicated resource of that kind -- don't spawn threads as and when needed, or the thread-switching overhead will overwhelm you.
Communication between two threads is always via Queue.Queue -- a form of message passing, the only sane foundation for multiprocessing (besides transactional-memory, which is promising but for which I know of no production-worthy implementations except In Haskell).
Each dedicated thread managing a single resource (or small cohesive set of resources) listens for requests on a specific Queue.Queue instance. Threads in a pool wait on a single shared Queue.Queue (Queue is solidly threadsafe and won't fail you in this).
Threads that just need to queue up a request on some queue (shared or dedicated) do so without waiting for results, and move on. Threads that eventually DO need a result or confirmation for a request queue a pair (request, receivingqueue) with an instance of Queue.Queue they just made, and eventually, when the response or confirmation is indispensable in order to proceed, they get (waiting) from their receivingqueue. Be sure you're ready to get error-responses as well as real responses or confirmations (Twisted's deferreds are great at organizing this kind of structured response, BTW!).
You can also use Queue to "park" instances of resources which can be used by any one thread but never be shared among multiple threads at one time (DB connections with some DBAPI compoents, cursors with others, etc) -- this lets you relax the dedicated-thread requirement in favor of more pooling (a pool thread that gets from the shared queue a request needing a queueable resource will get that resource from the apppropriate queue, waiting if necessary, etc etc).
Twisted is actually a good way to organize this minuet (or square dance as the case may be), not just thanks to deferreds but because of its sound, solid, highly scalable base architecture: you may arrange things to use threads or subprocesses only when truly warranted, while doing most things normally considered thread-worthy in a single event-driven thread.
But, I realize Twisted is not for everybody -- the "dedicate or pool resources, use Queue up the wazoo, never do anything needing a Lock or, Guido forbid, any synchronization procedure even more advanced, such as semaphore or condition" approach can still be used even if you just can't wrap your head around async event-driven methodologies, and will still deliver more reliability and performance than any other widely-applicable threading approach I've ever stumbled upon.
It depends on what you're trying to do, but I'm partial to just using the threading module in the standard library because it makes it really easy to take any function and just run it in a separate thread.
from threading import Thread
def f():
...
def g(arg1, arg2, arg3=None):
....
Thread(target=f).start()
Thread(target=g, args=[5, 6], kwargs={"arg3": 12}).start()
And so on. I often have a producer/consumer setup using a synchronized queue provided by the Queue module
from Queue import Queue
from threading import Thread
q = Queue()
def consumer():
while True:
print sum(q.get())
def producer(data_source):
for line in data_source:
q.put( map(int, line.split()) )
Thread(target=producer, args=[SOME_INPUT_FILE_OR_SOMETHING]).start()
for i in range(10):
Thread(target=consumer).start()
Kamaelia is a python framework for building applications with lots of communicating processes.
(source: kamaelia.org) Kamaelia - Concurrency made useful, fun
In Kamaelia you build systems from simple components that talk to each other. This speeds development, massively aids maintenance and also means you build naturally concurrent software. It's intended to be accessible by any developer, including novices. It also makes it fun :)
What sort of systems? Network servers, clients, desktop applications, pygame based games, transcode systems and pipelines, digital TV systems, spam eradicators, teaching tools, and a fair amount more :)
Here's a video from Pycon 2009. It starts by comparing Kamaelia to Twisted and Parallel Python and then gives a hands on demonstration of Kamaelia.
Easy Concurrency with Kamaelia - Part 1 (59:08)
Easy Concurrency with Kamaelia - Part 2 (18:15)
Regarding Kamaelia, the answer above doesn't really cover the benefit here. Kamaelia's approach provides a unified interface, which is pragmatic not perfect, for dealing with threads, generators & processes in a single system for concurrency.
Fundamentally it provides a metaphor of a running thing which has inboxes, and outboxes. You send messages to outboxes, and when wired together, messages flow from outboxes to inboxes. This metaphor/API remains the same whether you're using generators, threads or processes, or speaking to other systems.
The "not perfect" part is due to syntactic sugar not being added as yet for inboxes and outboxes (though this is under discussion) - there is a focus on safety/usability in the system.
Taking the producer consumer example using bare threading above, this becomes this in Kamaelia:
Pipeline(Producer(), Consumer() )
In this example it doesn't matter if these are threaded components or otherwise, the only difference is between them from a usage perspective is the baseclass for the component. Generator components communicate using lists, threaded components using Queue.Queues and process based using os.pipes.
The reason behind this approach though is to make it harder to make hard to debug bugs. In threading - or any shared memory concurrency you have, the number one problem you face is accidentally broken shared data updates. By using message passing you eliminate one class of bugs.
If you use bare threading and locks everywhere you're generally working on the assumption that when you write code that you won't make any mistakes. Whilst we all aspire to that, it's very rare that will happen. By wrapping up the locking behaviour in one place you simplify where things can go wrong. (Context handlers help, but don't help with accidental updates outside the context handler)
Obviously not every piece of code can be written as message passing and shared style which is why Kamaelia also has a simple software transactional memory (STM), which is a really neat idea with a nasty name - it's more like version control for variables - ie check out some variables, update them and commit back. If you get a clash you rinse and repeat.
Relevant links:
Europython 09 tutorial
Monthly releases
Mailing list
Examples
Example Apps
Reusable components (generator & thread)
Anyway, I hope that's a useful answer. FWIW, the core reason behind Kamaelia's setup is to make concurrency safer & easier to use in python systems, without the tail wagging the dog. (ie the big bucket of components
I can understand why the other Kamaelia answer was modded down, since even to me it looks more like an ad than an answer. As the author of Kamaelia it's nice to see enthusiasm though I hope this contains a bit more relevant content :-)
And that's my way of saying, please take the caveat that this answer is by definition biased, but for me, Kamaelia's aim is to try and wrap what is IMO best practice. I'd suggest trying a few systems out, and seeing which works for you. (also if this is inappropriate for stack overflow, sorry - I'm new to this forum :-)
I would use the Microthreads (Tasklets) of Stackless Python, if I had to use threads at all.
A whole online game (massivly multiplayer) is build around Stackless and its multithreading principle -- since the original is just to slow for the massivly multiplayer property of the game.
Threads in CPython are widely discouraged. One reason is the GIL -- a global interpreter lock -- that serializes threading for many parts of the execution. My experiance is, that it is really difficult to create fast applications this way. My example codings where all slower with threading -- with one core (but many waits for input should have made some performance boosts possible).
With CPython, rather use seperate processes if possible.
If you really want to get your hands dirty, you can try using generators to fake coroutines. It probably isn't the most efficient in terms of work involved, but coroutines do offer you very fine control of co-operative multitasking rather than pre-emptive multitasking you'll find elsewhere.
One advantage you'll find is that by and large, you will not need locks or mutexes when using co-operative multitasking, but the more important advantage for me was the nearly-zero switching speed between "threads". Of course, Stackless Python is said to be very good for that as well; and then there's Erlang, if it doesn't have to be Python.
Probably the biggest disadvantage in co-operative multitasking is the general lack of workaround for blocking I/O. And in the faked coroutines, you'll also encounter the issue that you can't switch "threads" from anything but the top level of the stack within a thread.
After you've made an even slightly complex application with fake coroutines, you'll really begin to appreciate the work that goes into process scheduling at the OS level.
I was recently reading this document which lists a number of strategies that could be employed to implement a socket server. Namely, they are:
Serve many clients with each thread, and use nonblocking I/O and level-triggered readiness notification
Serve many clients with each thread, and use nonblocking I/O and readiness change notification
Serve many clients with each server thread, and use asynchronous I/O
serve one client with each server thread, and use blocking I/O
Build the server code into the kernel
Now, I would appreciate a hint on which should be used in CPython, which we know has some good points, and some bad points. I am mostly interested in performance under high concurrency, and yes a number of the current implementations are too slow.
So if I may start with the easy one, "5" is out, as I am not going to be hacking anything into the kernel.
"4" Also looks like it must be out because of the GIL. Of course, you could use multiprocessing in place of threads here, and that does give a significant boost. Blocking IO also has the advantage of being easier to understand.
And here my knowledge wanes a bit:
"1" is traditional select or poll which could be trivially combined with multiprocessing.
"2" is the readiness-change notification, used by the newer epoll and kqueue
"3" I am not sure there are any kernel implementations for this that have Python wrappers.
So, in Python we have a bag of great tools like Twisted. Perhaps they are a better approach, though I have benchmarked Twisted and found it too slow on a multiple processor machine. Perhaps having 4 twisteds with a load balancer might do it, I don't know. Any advice would be appreciated.
asyncore is basically "1" - It uses select internally, and you just have one thread handling all requests. According to the docs it can also use poll. (EDIT: Removed Twisted reference, I thought it used asyncore, but I was wrong).
"2" might be implemented with python-epoll (Just googled it - never seen it before).
EDIT: (from the comments) In python 2.6 the select module has epoll, kqueue and kevent build-in (on supported platforms). So you don't need any external libraries to do edge-triggered serving.
Don't rule out "4", as the GIL will be dropped when a thread is actually doing or waiting for IO-operations (most of the time probably). It doesn't make sense if you've got huge numbers of connections of course. If you've got lots of processing to do, then python may not make sense with any of these schemes.
For flexibility maybe look at Twisted?
In practice your problem boils down to how much processing you are going to do for requests. If you've got a lot of processing, and need to take advantage of multi-core parallel operation, then you'll probably need multiple processes. On the other hand if you just need to listen on lots of connections, then select or epoll, with a small number of threads should work.
How about "fork"? (I assume that is what the ForkingMixIn does) If the requests are handled in a "shared nothing" (other than DB or file system) architecture, fork() starts pretty quickly on most *nixes, and you don't have to worry about all the silly bugs and complications from threading.
Threads are a design illness forced on us by OSes with too-heavy-weight processes, IMHO. Cloning a page table with copy-on-write attributes seems a small price, especially if you are running an interpreter anyway.
Sorry I can't be more specific, but I'm more of a Perl-transitioning-to-Ruby programmer (when I'm not slaving over masses of Java at work)
Update: I finally did some timings on thread vs fork in my "spare time". Check it out:
http://roboprogs.com/devel/2009.04.html
Expanded:
http://roboprogs.com/devel/2009.12.html
One sollution is gevent. Gevent maries a libevent based event polling with lightweight cooperative task switching implemented by greenlet.
What you get is all the performance and scalability of an event system with the elegance and straightforward model of blocking IO programing.
(I don't know what the SO convention about answering to realy old questions is, but decided I'd still add my 2 cents)
Can I suggest additional links?
cogen is a crossplatform library for network oriented, coroutine based programming using the enhanced generators from python 2.5. On the main page of cogen project there're links to several projects with similar purpose.
I like Douglas' answer, but as an aside...
You could use a centralized dispatch thread/process that listens for readiness notifications using select and delegates to a pool of worker threads/processes to help accomplish your parallelism goals.
As Douglas mentioned, however, the GIL won't be held during most lengthy I/O operations (since no Python-API things are happening), so if it's response latency you're concerned about you can try moving the critical portions of your code to CPython API.
http://docs.python.org/library/socketserver.html#asynchronous-mixins
As for multi-processor (multi-core) machines. With CPython due to GIL you'll need at least one process per core, to scale. As you say that you need CPython, you might try to benchmark that with ForkingMixIn. With Linux 2.6 might give some interesting results.
Other way is to use Stackless Python. That's how EVE solved it. But I understand that it's not always possible.